:: September 2005 Volume 4/Number 6

Sitting Down With: Jerry Brown.

By Julie Deife

Photo: Janet Orsi

Jerry Brown, Mayor of Oakland, former Governor of California and three-time presidential candidate, is running for Attorney General. Brown studied for the Catholic priesthood as a young man, and years later spent time in Japan studying Zen Buddhism as well as in India working with Mother Teresa.

When I finally found myself “Sitting Down (sort of) With: Jerry Brown” on Friday, July 29 for a 30 minute talk, it was in his third floor loft campaign office on the edge of Oakland’s ‘Ghost Town.’ Sounds like a Bruce Springsteen song.

There’s a bed with a blanket folded neatly at its foot, an alarm clock, a lamp and a Xerox machine in one corner. A big black quiet lab, Dharma, and his tennis ball. White boards with schedules and flip chart with strategy. A kitchen – neat, tidy – Arm & Hammer Baking Soda, a bottle of Makers Mark. A small conference table, an assistant’s station or two. Bare brick walls and bare concrete floor, a small ficus tree, a short stack of orange foam mats.

We sit down. Suddenly he gets up again and runs upstairs to shave since he hadn’t known photos would be taken. We are interrupted frequently by the ringing of his cell phone, assistants asking how much longer this interview will take or someone pulling him outside the room to talk out of earshot. Yet through all this, Brown focuses his attention on whatever is in front of him. He doesn’t lose his train of thought and although impatient at times with questions he deems lengthier than they should be, he is present, gracious, and true to form, tenacious and opinionated.

Due to the many interruptions, we are running over. People
are filtering in for a previously scheduled strategy meeting
in the same room, so Brown decides to move the interview
a few floors up, where he lives.

Here in his home, another side of Jerry Brown is on display and following the interview he shares stories of his collection of artifacts, a private side of his life. A large statue of Kuan Yin graces the dining room. He is eager
to explain the meaning of an
ornate cross, given to him by Mother Teresa, which comes from the hidden Catholics of Nagasaki. On one side it is a plain cross, a Buddha is on the other side. Should the authorities come knocking at the door, it can be turned around quickly. Zen art and hundreds, maybe thousands of books add to the mystique of the man as a
renegade spiritual philosopher politician. He turns on a CD of Gregorian chants that were part of his recent wedding, asking me if I recognize them.

With so many problems to address in the State of California, indeed the entire planet, and the 2006 elections already heating up, he intends this interview to keep politics in our awareness.

Julie: Are you familiar with the Gaia Principle, the idea that the earth is a giant living organism whose health needs to be maintained like any living organism?

Jerry Brown: I’m familiar with it. This is somewhat of a metaphor for the complex interaction and interdependencies of the world we live in.
It is absolutely true that human beings evolved over millions of years and that the ecosystem in which we live has also evolved over millions and millions of years and we are now in the process of disrupting it in ways that were unheard of because of the fantastic power that is now at the disposal of humankind.
Because of this advancement of power, whether it’s nuclear, genetic engineering, advanced forms of chemicals, nanotechnology, or the attitude of a huge population that is unprecedented in historical terms, all of this calls out for greater wisdom and prudence and restraint, not found easily in a global market economy, which is based on intense universal competition that adds impact on an hourly basis to all these natural systems.
Were we able to evolve at a rate of speed totally different from historic evolution, that might be good, but it's highly unlikely that what took millions of years can now be somehow speeded up and replicated in only decades by human beings.

Julie: Do you think that increased consciousness on a mega-scale would make a difference?

Jerry Brown: Some human beings are very conscious and we’ve had these people appear throughout history. But the fact that there are some people conscious to an extraordinary degree, does not mean that several million, let alone several billion people will now trod the path of enlightenment, as exemplified by Christ or Buddha or any of the holy prophets that have come over the last millennium. So there we are, stuck with our mundane thinking.

Julie: You’ve made the point that the state’s attorney generals have the potential to band together and effect change on environmental issues much as they did against big tobacco. Could you give an example?

Jerry Brown: One very prominent environmental law is the federal law of public nuisance that affects the relationship of one state to another. There is currently a lawsuit by five attorneys general against certain Midwestern electric utilities that burn coal and emit greenhouse gases. The lawsuit aims to cap the greenhouse gases and require a phased reduction in their emission of greenhouse gases. The theory of this particular case is that the burning of coal is affecting the environments of several states, including California.

This is a very unique, difficult lawsuit to win, but it is an example of how the statutory and the case law of both federal and state courts can be used to protect the environment if we all work together and this could be done with air quality, water quality, toxics, habitat preservation, forests, the load of chemicals that human beings are now assuming because of all the chemicals in the stream of commerce.

Julie: Would this be a priority?

Jerry Brown: A top priority for me will be the use of existing law to advance a much higher level of environmental protection.
Julie: How do you feel about the legalization of the cultivation of hemp for the manufacture of products such as hemp oil or clothing?

Jerry Brown: I certainly think there’s a lot of value there in hemp. As far as my understanding goes, it's available in Canada, and I'd like to see how well it's doing there.

Julie: Studies are showing that the hemp manufacturing dollars would benefit California in an unprecedented way.

Jerry Brown: I believe there’s a federal set of rules that limit the cultivation of hemp products and I think it would take a change from congress.

Julie: Do you think there will be a point in time soon, where a substantial number of people would consider the environment more important than short term economic gain?

Jerry Brown: Already a lot of people say the environment should take precedence, polls show that. Now, whether or not someone would say that if his own job or livelihood would be affected is another question, but it does raise the very important point that the economy is contained within the environment. The economy has to subordinate itself to the ecological rules that govern the natural world. When you offend these rules, you can generate all sorts of very negative consequences, whether it is the collapse of fisheries or the build-up of chemicals in the environment, in the body, in the soils.

Julie: While we’re on the environment, if laws for licensing products as organic are not adequate, what would you recommend?

Jerry Brown: Which products?

Julie: There are skin care products labeled organic in which there are many items that aren’t organic by any stretch of the imagination.

Jerry Brown: It’s very clear in California that consumer advertising, content labeling must be accurate, it must tell the truth.

Julie: It may be that manufacturers are working within the letter of the law, but the law isn’t protecting the consumers.

Jerry Brown: OK. You can speak about cosmetics and you can also speak about the rules for certifying organic products. To the extent that the law is there, I will vigorously enforce it; to the extent that the law is deficient, I will work with the legislature to make it better.

Julie: What about children’s health? How would you address the issue of junk food? What about raising taxes on junk food?

Jerry Brown: Consumers might think your idea of junk food is different than somebody else’s. Obviously you could identify foods that are excessively salty, sugary, or whatever, but where are you going to start? People do want the freedom to buy donuts. If you’re going to say, ‘no, we don’t like you to have your donuts,’ then that has to really be thought through. But as a principle, taxes should be levied on things you want less of, things you want more of the taxes should be as light as we can fiscally, responsibly accommodate.

Julie: In what ways does your background as a former Jesuit and student of Zen Buddhism affect the way you live now?

Jerry Brown: The thinkers, the prophets, the writers in the Catholic tradition or the Buddhist tradition have great insight and wisdom and I try to bring that to bear on how I understand the world and how I carry out my work. In both Christianity and Buddhism there’s a respect for life, and there’s a call for compassion and empathy and those are things that should be kept in mind as laws are formulated or enforced.

Julie: As one with experience in meditation practice, what do you think could happen if our political leaders meditated?

Jerry Brown: Certainly if we had some of our more aggressive politicians doing yoga or meditating it would be definitely helpful. I do think we’re in a very distracted world, 24-hour television, very frightening. So anything that contributes to wholeness, integrity or contemplation would be a very good corrective to the novelty obsession that characterizes our culture.

Julie: Do you practice yoga?

Jerry Brown: I’ve done yoga in different places, Forrest Yoga in Santa Monica. I had yoga in my building and I did yoga in San Francisco in the Bikram type studio, although the temperature was only in the low nineties, so it was only a deviant form of Bikram, a more comfortable form, I might add.
Of late I’ve been very absorbed in my work. Certainly I could use more at this point.

Julie: Do you meditate?

Jerry Brown: I’m running my two charter schools, I’m governing a very challenging city and I’m running for attorney general.

Julie: Do you build quiet time into your
schedule?

Jerry Brown: Well, I don’t have it on my schedule. I have a good teacher, a dog, named Dharma.

Julie: Have you yet regretted your position on the three strikes law? 1

Jerry Brown: No. That initiative was very overdrawn. It would have released over half of the men that were serving time on the third strike and there was no discretion at the parole board to protect the people of California. That thing was written in a private office. It was primarily sponsored by one individual whose son had killed two people and he was trying to get his son out of jail a little quicker. They then added on some other changes which essentially took seven felonies that were termed serious and attempted to make them unserious and the result of that would be the automatic release of half of the people that had a third strike and some people say it would have also released another 20,000. That’s a little more controversial, but the point is we need thoughtful reform in the criminal justice system. Evidence of that is that every district attorney in the entire state opposed it.

Julie: Are changes needed?

Jerry Brown: Well look, here’s the story. It’s not that changes aren’t needed, I agree with that, but I felt that that law went too far. It was going to release people who have killed, who have molested children — thousands of people — and it had a very appealing sound to it. But when you actually read it, it just went too far, and the fact that you can give a good label to an initiative does not make it accomplish what the label suggests that it will accomplish and that was a change that was overbroad.

Julie: But obviously people coming out of prison need a way to reintegrate.

Jerry Brown: I think we need to put back into the sentencing system a level of discretion in the hands of the parole board whereby they can protect public safety and allow people to be released, to inject rehabilitation, training and a real plan for their re-entry into society.

Julie: What’s stopping that from happening?

Jerry Brown: The great problem that we face here is that with the fixed sentencing, they’re not doing anything while they’re in prison except sit there and maybe plan their next crime. There’s very little training, there’s very little preparation and then when they get out, they need to get jobs.
In Oakland, I’ve established Project Choice, whereby we send people from Oakland into prisons, where they work with people who are going to be coming out and then we work with employers to get them jobs.

Julie: Normally there is a climb up the political ladder and the top of the ladder is considered to be the prize. You have a distinguished career from Governor to presidential candidate, to mayor and now you’re running for attorney general. I would like to know how you define success.

Jerry Brown: Success is not a term I think about; it’s not a word I use.

Julie: All right then, what drives you?

Jerry Brown: What drives me? I mean, my entire…what drives me? That’s a tough one. I hope I make free choices with some degree of enlightenment, so I wouldn’t call that a drive. I think a drive is like where you’re hungry or when you have some overarching desire.

Julie: What motivates you, what keeps you going?

Jerry Brown: Y’know when you call it a drive, it’s like an instinct. As one evolves, hopefully we make more unfettered decisions that are based on understanding and insight, aiming at what is good. So that’s really it, the pursuit of the good.

Julie: What are some basic principles that allow one to do that?

Jerry Brown: Harmony, and proportionality or balance is the heart of wisdom, so that’s what I would say is the driving factor. Although I also am attracted to the political government, campaigns, issues, and that competitive environment, but I do it in the context of wanting to bring about greater understanding and greater alignment with what is right and what is sustainable and what is compassionate.

Julie: As governor you signed the original legislation that made acupuncture legal.

Jerry Brown: I did, and I also created the first wellness commission.

Julie: Are you in favor of licensing Ayurveda in the state of California?

Jerry Brown: I do think there should be many forms of healing and they should be recognized. The acupuncturists had a hard go. I would be very willing to meet with Ayurvedic practitioners and hear what they have to say and work with them in the legislature.

Julie: What would you like to say in closing?

Jerry Brown: I do appreciate yoga in its physical aspects, as well as its mental and spiritual aspects, and I do think the integration of body and mind is crucial, although, being caught up in political campaigns is not what I’d call an integrated life, but, I will try to achieve it, as I go along.

* Three strikes laws are a category of statues enacted by state governments in the U.S., beginning in the 1990s, to mandate long periods of imprisonment for persons convicted of a felony on three (or more) separate occasions. The exact application of the three-strikes laws varies from state to state. On November 2, 2004, California voters rejected an amendment to the statute (offered in Proposition 66.)

The amendment would have required the third felony to be either
"violent" and/or "serious" in order to result in a 25-years-to-life
sentence.